Curse

Patrick Smit · May 16, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

for losing u should never include tradeable items or tokens. For winning you should be carefull too. Do you want gold bots to enter the arenas and start working on regular players? If this could be prevented it might be safe.

Servant of Kali · May 16, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

What i dont get is this:

1) Farming is very rewarding
2) PvP has no rewards other than "joy of participating" (right...)

Now, i hope someone wont come with "oh but top GvGers get money and there's a HoH chest blabla". Yeah, that's like saying top10 PvE farmers will get something, everyone else gets nothing. How bout that?

Now for the trick part:
People play MMOs so they can play TOGETHER.
Farming in general is mostly about soloing.

Encouraging PvP (with rewards) means more people enjoy the game, means more people buy the game (and i dont mean here just PvPers but PvErs who would like to occasionally PvP, except there's no point in it).

If someone likes to farm, honestly, why would you play GW?! I can think of zillion other games where it would be more interesting and rewarding.

In other words, this game is rewarding the wrong things, or at least different ratios of rewards exist.

Quote:

Would it be bad if playing casual PvP was more rewarding than farming?

I think this whole game has gone downhill which is one of the reasons why i dont play it anymore, for the time being. Skill-over-time played has been more and more forsaken with each chapter.

What should be more rewarding? Something that you can bot, or something that requires human factor, skill, etc? Casual PvP should be more rewarding than farming, because casual PvP supports the game, it makes it more fun for everyone, and it makes the game feel more as MMO and less as singleplayer.

Nowadays, PvP overall is 20x less rewarding than farming, and that's SAD.

Also, i am strongly against PvP rewards for the best team only (HoH chests, GvG money, ATs which are not for casual guilds..). Everyone who plays PvE gets rewarded, even if you dont farm you still get some money along the way. It should be that way in PvP too.

urania · May 16, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Each time you lose a game, you earn an appropriate number of "tokens of grenth" (grenth enjoys you dying and so rewards even failure). RA/TA may give 1 token per match, AB/HvH may give 2 tokens, HoH may give 5, and GvG may give 10. You can trade tokens of grenth for tokens of bathazar: 3 tokens of grenth = 1 token of bath. When you win a game, you earn an appropriate number of "tokens of bathazar." RA/TA may give 1 token per match, AB/HvH may give 2 tokens, HoH may give 5, and GvG may give 10.

let me correct this....
AB/RA=1 point
TA/HA/HoH=2 points
GVG=5 points

the fact that u put TA in same group as RA makes me a sad panda.

putting AB above TA is simply outrageous though.....shame on you. Are u even aware of what you're saying? sheesh..

Quote:

I think you guys are underestimating how much pvers earn. Usually pvers say an average guy can earn 10k an hour farming, and a really good farmer can earn a LOT more.

that might have been the case before the drop nerf. Vanquishing is quite profitable though, and so is HM farm for golds.

but one needs luck with gold drops to actually make farming profitable since farming for money is just dead.

evil joo · May 16, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

/agree

/signed

/salute

v for Valkier · May 16, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

This sounds like a great system, but if the reason you want this system implemented is so PvE'rs get into PvP, i believe there is a bigger problem.

What i believe is the biggest problem is decent or low ranked guilds cannot compete in these ATs. If i remember correctly (i may be wrong), the ATs were supposed to group guilds together with similar rating, so top guilds are in their own tournament, and low ranked guilds are in their own as well. As it stands now, everyone is grouped together no matter what their rank, so you have guilds not even on the GuildWars.com ladder playing guilds such as iQ and eF. These guilds are losing tremendous amounts of rating, since tournament fights are in regular ELO rating, and promoting ladder 'grinding' instead of tournament play. Not sure what happened to this idea, but this i believe, is discouraging low ranked guilds or casual players from entering the PvP world.

Obviously, as continually mentioned, it is difficult to get into high-end PvP because of the enormous skill gap between top guilds and the rest. Casual guilds cannot improve if they are forced to play against the top guilds in the world. They need to be able to have tournaments with other guilds of similar rating/rank.

Alex the Great · May 16, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

/signed

but no grenth tokens pls
or free greens

srry just no

Blame the Monks · May 16, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

putting AB above TA is simply outrageous though.....shame on you. Are u even aware of what you're saying? sheesh.

I based the points off of time they take per match, not skill.

wren e · May 16, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Good idea on the most part. Personally I would remove the grenth tokens since that would lead to to many afkers and /resigner's. This needs to be done to maintain competition. Other than this, I do like the idea of offering monetary rewards for PvP for the "Regular Joe". Also, PvPer's need money too for guest invites, guild invites, and Guild Hall NPC's.

urania · May 16, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

I based the points off of time they take per match, not skill.

u could easily have put it in the same group as gvg then. (:

Thomas.knbk · May 16, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by v for Valkier

If i remember correctly (i may be wrong), the ATs were supposed to group guilds together with similar rating,

That would explain why TEA faced both vD and RUS (twice), while the rating difference is only 350 and 200.

nugzta · May 17, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

To prevent botting, if you have losing streak you get less reward everytime. The reward goes back normally once you win again. I think we shouldnt get gold for reward as it might crush pve economy but we should be able to use balthazar factions to buy things.

Patrick Smit · May 17, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

To prevent botting, if you have losing streak you get less reward everytime. The reward goes back normally once you win again. I think we shouldnt get gold for reward as it might crush pve economy but we should be able to use balthazar factions to buy things.

I can agree that you should be able to buy stuff with it, but it should not be possible to salvage nor sell it. So the item must be customized, and the mods should unsalvageable, much like greens.

Patccmoi · May 17, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

To prevent botting, if you have losing streak you get less reward everytime. The reward goes back normally once you win again. I think we shouldnt get gold for reward as it might crush pve economy but we should be able to use balthazar factions to buy things.

It wouldn't crush the PvE community anymore than adding some PvE players would. PvP wouldn't become incredible gold farming that's unmatched in PvE. It would only give similar gold to PvE farming to high end PvP (which is a minority of the PvP population which is a minority of the GW population). For the rest, it would still give less gold than plain farming would, and hopefully there would be LESS people plain farming since they could make gold another way. I seriously doubt the economy would crash cause of that.

Cass · May 18, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Or you could simply make Balthazar faction tradeable for gold, gold items, greens, sigils... etcetera. Faction rewards for kills (or other partial successes) in PvP would need to be increased, but this would have the same effect as the much more problematic original proposal: PvP now earns you something, and you get something too if you lose-- but only if you manage to make at least some kills. So leeching will not get you far at all and resign spiking doesn't pay anything.
The beauty of this is that there is no large pool of accumulated balthazar faction, as the amount an account can hold has always been very (and still is rather) limited, so the 'economy' will not be stressed by massive cashing in of oldtimers.

Frantic-Sheep · May 18, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Ok, so the bottom line is you want to encourage people for playing PvP. I don't think gold is the right key for that. If you care so much about gold, then do PvE, and please go farm (It's not bad, can even be fun!). If not, do quests, trade etc.

If you want to PvP, and get people more into PvP, try to focus on keypoints for PvP combat, and dont try to blend PvE into it. People who play PvE will feel highly discouraged I think (just look at the whining at the tournament points for skins). They feel like PvPers will get another thing they had easier access to. And once again, there isn't much you can do with gold as PvPer (besides GuildHall buying/upgrading).

It's just some extra fluff that would need serious protection and will only make a lot of people angry and others more lazy impov.

EDIT: For people saying it doesn't influence PvE-ers that much, then give them faction for completing quests too, and why not give them fame for elite missions etc.? See the point?
What I like more is the idea of Cass for example, just make faction more spendable.. and even that isn't highly necessary I think

Vaga · May 18, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

The thing is for the majority of people they have barely even pvped before giving up on it. If you spend a day pvping for the first time you barely get anything out of it if you are new to the game and probably don't have any fun as you get slaughtered. If PvP was more rewarding to newer and mid range players you would probably see more people participate.

Right now to get into PvP you have to dedicate a huge amount of time and effort yet you won't be rewarded with anything much unless you reach the same level as the people who are both naturally good at the game and have been practicing for 2 years.

Basically if some PvErs GvG for a night solely for the fact that there are some decent rewards it's likely that some of them will be like "hey this is way more fun than 55 monking and just as rewarding I'm going to try convince my guild to do this more or find a pvp guild".

DutchSmurf · May 18, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

Basically if some PvErs GvG for a night solely for the fact that there are some decent rewards it's likely that some of them will be like "hey this is way more fun than 55 monking and just as rewarding I'm going to try convince my guild to do this more or find a pvp guild".

It is more likely that they are going to spam the forums because they just don't want to pvp at all and want the rewards removed. And even if they like it, they soon find out that:
a) they can't play HA in a decent group because they have no rank
b) can't get into a decent guild because there is no way to find a guild ingame
c) even if they find one, the guild probably won't want them

Avatar of Odin · May 18, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I support a gold based reward system but not the the extent you suggest 1k faction = 1k gold is too much should be more like 500 gold or less

Ec]-[oMaN · May 18, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

It is more likely that they are going to spam the forums because they just don't want to pvp at all and want the rewards removed. And even if they like it, they soon find out that:
a) they can't play HA in a decent group because they have no rank
b) can't get into a decent guild because there is no way to find a guild ingame
c) even if they find one, the guild probably won't want them

Yup.

Personally I don't think any kind of PVP rewards would keep new PVP'ers from sticking it through unless the rewards are greatly overwhelming compared to PVE, even then it's unlikely. The problem is not just getting new comers into the PVP scene, it's keeping them in it, which just simply boils down to the majority of the GWs community just isn't that competitive.

nugzta · May 18, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Giving gold reward means more gold available in the market, hence it will affect pve economy somehow. My suggestion is to make balthazar factions as new currency. It allows you to buy standard merchant items and maybe unique items like creme brulee, flask firewater, flame of balthazar, etc from say, zaishen merchant. Also zaishen trader for stuff that are not available in pve like mods, inscriptions and tomes.

This will prevent botting as well because gg for only able to farm max 10000 factions (unless those bot accounts have some pvp titles which I doubt).

Perhaps consider win/loss ratio in matching players in RA (imo pvp arena would be the first place for new comers to play pvp). So less experienced players will learn how to play without being pwned so bad and for experience players they dont have to ragequit because his team are noobs.